Briana: Hello and welcome to Gators on Purpose, where we talk with Allegheny College alumni who show us the power of combining what you love with what challenges you. At Allegheny College, being a Gator on purpose means shaping your own extraordinary path. And those unusual combinations lead to extraordinary outcomes -- meaningful careers, and lives built on purpose. I'm Briana Lewis, associate professor of French and faculty liaison to the center for career and professional development, and I'm talking today with Jennifer Haddox-Schatz, Allegheny College class of 2000. Jennifer is currently senior applications architect at Daniel H. Wagner Associates. Today we'll hear about how the network of people around her, at Allegheny and beyond, have helped her to build a meaningful life and a meaningful career. Jennifer Haddox-Schatz, welcome back to Allegheny (virtually) and thank you for joining us for Gators on Purpose.


Jennifer: Thank you for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here.


Briana: So to start us off today, I wanted to start at more or less the beginning. What brought you to Allegheny? How did you end up here?


Jennifer: Well, I wanted to originally, you know, go away from home and be off on my own, but not too far. And I was interested in a career in law or politics. And I knew Allegheny had an excellent political science department. And it was also a competitive school. I would be around other, sort of, motivated, excited to learn students. So those were all factors that led me to Allegheny initially.


Briana: Okay. So initially law and politics. Yeah. And that's not where you ended up. Well, it sort of was. What were your major and minor while you were here?


Jennifer: Well, my major ended up being computer science. And my minors were mathematics, and I did still stick with political science as a second minor.


Briana: So, you did have a minor in political science.


Jennifer: I did. 


Briana: So, tell me about that change of path. How did that happen?


Jennifer: That's an interesting story. I have my dad to thank and the late great Professor Robert Cupper to thank. As I was picking my courses out at the beginning of my freshman year, my dad on a whim said, "Jennifer, why don't you take a computer science course?” So, I said, "Okay." And I—I signed up. Had never done any programming in my life. My parents only first got a computer at home when I was 16. So kind of went in blind. And the first couple of weeks in the course, I struggled. It seemed like everybody else around me had done some programming and I just felt completely overwhelmed, and I almost gave up. I actually brought an add-drop card to Professor Cupper and said, "I can't do this. I'm going to fail. I'm not smart enough." I said, "I've got to drop this course," and he refused to sign it.


Briana: Oh, wow.


Jennifer: He told me, "Jennifer, I think you can do this. You're working hard. I know you can put your mind to it." And so he refused to sign it and I didn't argue with him. And so I carried on, and I studied really hard for the first couple of weeks. And then eventually things just started to click in my mind. I kind of relaxed. That initial freshman anxiety subsided, and I absolutely fell in love with programming and the field. And then I realized I didn't want to do anything else.


Briana: Wow. Yeah. Well, and it's so interesting to hear—we hear these stories, right, of a professor who says, "Yep, no, we're not letting you quit right now. You're gonna—you're going to keep at it." And I bet you didn't like that at the time….


Jennifer: I was—my—my anxiety just kind of shot even more through the roof. But I realized, okay, I've got to do this. Like, I can make this work. And I mean, I ended up doing great in the class in the end. So, he—he was right. Like, I will always be grateful for him believing in me.


Briana: Yeah. Yeah. Makes a big difference. And that was your first year at Allegheny?


Jennifer: That was my first semester.


Briana: The very first semester.


Jennifer: The very first semester. Yeah.


Briana: So tell me more about your first year overall. What was your—what was your transition to college like in your first year in general?


Jennifer: Those first, say, one to two months were just a lot of anxiety. Everybody around me just seemed so much smarter than me. I wasn't believing in myself at first. I was afraid of making friends. But again, like, once that initial anxiety subsided, I started doing well on tests and I realized I could do this. I started to relax more. I started to become more confident. I got more involved in some volunteer activities. I volunteered at a home for kids who were taken out of troubled circumstances. I got involved in a mentoring program at a local church, got hooked up with a high school student there. And so I kind of slowly started to spread my wings and gain confidence. And by the end of the year, I knew I was in the right place. I had a wonderful group of friends. I had my major settled. I knew what I wanted to do. So, it was kind of like just sort of fear and anxiety initially, and oh my gosh, I'm never going to be able to do this, to everything sort of falling into place both academically and socially.


Briana: Yeah. Yeah. So thinking not just of your first year but of your time overall, which activities that you were involved in would you say had the biggest impact on you? Especially looking back from now, which had the biggest long-term impact?


Jennifer: I'm thinking of two off the top of my head. One: by my second year, I got involved further with the computer science department by serving as a lab TA and a tutor. And since I had just so recently struggled with some of the material my freshman year, I was really excited to help others who might be struggling. And so being able to hone those mentoring skills and those teaching skills actually served me well long term in my career. The longer I was at Wagner, I became more senior. And when new people were brought in, I often was helping to train them or involved in mentoring them. And then I even kicked off, myself at my small company, sort of an unofficial mentoring program where we pair up senior developers with new hires. And that unofficial mentoring program has been going on for 10 years now. So I'm really proud of that. So basically that sort of—that experience I got early on with teaching and mentoring others as a TA, I think, made me a better employee at Wagner Associates and has helped us to make a better environment for our new hires.


Briana: Yeah. Well, and you—you mentioned, you know, having so recently struggled with the material —it motivated you to help others, but I imagine it really helped you empathize with them as well.


Jennifer: Yes, I think it did. And so I was really excited, I think, and able to effectively help some of the—the freshmen and sophomores that I ended up TAing and tutoring.


Briana: Yeah. I was also curious... You talked about sort of the—the change in path, finding computer science when you had originally come here to do law and politics. You did continue to minor in political science. Did that interest continue to play a role in your time here or your time after Allegheny?


Jennifer: Yes, it definitely kind of stayed as sort of like an extracurricular for me on and off over the last couple decades. When I was a graduate student at the College of William and Mary, I got involved with the student Planned Parenthood group. And I actually kind of took the lead and organized a group of students to go to Washington DC for a demonstration when I was in graduate school. So that was really exciting to be a part of that. Even now, I've tried to get a little bit more involved in campaigning, like volunteering for political campaigns here locally. I've done a little bit of canvassing. I've done a little bit of phone banking. So that's still an interest for me. And then finally, in terms of very, very local politics, a couple years ago, I did go to a couple of my school division school board meetings, and I spoke out on some issues that were important to me. So, I've always kind of retained that interest in being politically engaged even though I went into the technology field.


Briana: Right. Right. It sounds as though you've not lost your commitment to the importance of that involvement and that activity.


Jennifer: Absolutely.


Briana: It's just -- didn't end up being the thing that became your profession.


Jennifer: Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And I—I suppose I could even add—I kind of brought that interest into my job at Wagner Associates. So my company's been around for over 60 years. And our leave policies, I don't think, had been updated in decades. And so a couple of colleagues and I got together and we realized that our leave policies aren't really supportive of new parents. And so, several of us got together, we researched what leave policies are like at other companies. And then I wrote up a little memo, and I presented it to management, of ways that we could maybe better support employees who wanted to become new parents, both male and female. And so we presented this and, you know, management studied it. And then after a period of months, they did change the leave policies at my company based on the work that we did, and we now have sort of a generic parental leave that new parents have access to regardless of whether they're male or female or how long they've been with the company. So I was really proud of being able to make that—that change to make it easy for people to—to choose to have a baby if they want to, and that they would have that—that time to sort of recover from, you know, dealing with a newborn and all of the stress that that entails, and—and bond with their child.


Briana: Yeah, absolutely. It's very Allegheny, the way that these interests blend and mix together, and everything is kind of... it's all part of who you are and what you do.


Jennifer: Very much—and very Allegheny, very much inspired by—I didn't come out of it just to be a software engineer. I have all these other skills, and I want to put them to use and just try to make things a better place for everyone.


Briana: Absolutely. And so you finished up at Allegheny. What—what was your next step? Tell us what happened next.


Jennifer: So, after Allegheny College, I decided to go to work full-time at a company called Reliable Software Technologies, founded by an Allegheny alum. And I had done a couple of internships there, after both my sophomore and junior year. I really, really liked it there. There were other Allegheny classmates of mine who were working there or had worked there. And then I also ended up meeting my now-husband on that job. And so I wanted to move to Virginia and have us spend some time together, and then we started planning our wedding and such. So, it was kind of some time in the full-time work world. But then, you know, I always knew I wanted to go back to graduate school and at least do a master's. So after a couple of years of getting some real world work experience under my belt, I went to the College of William and Mary for graduate school.


Briana: And so -- what was that degree?


Jennifer: It was a master's in computer science.


Briana: Okay. And then you— pretty soon after started at the—at the company that you're at now, right?


Jennifer: I did. I did. And that was another, like, wonderful example of networking and Allegheny again playing a role. It so happened that a classmate of mine from Allegheny who graduated three years ahead of me, she'd recently done her master's at William and Mary, and so I reached out to her when I was job hunting, and she connected me with one of her old classmates who happened to work at Daniel H. Wagner Associates at the time. And it was great. It was three of us ladies all sort of networking together. So that other William and Mary graduate who worked at Daniel H. Wagner Associates helped me secure an interview. And I-- It was just a perfect match. And I got the job and I have been working there ever since, and I still work to this day with that other William and Mary graduate on a variety of projects. So it's wonderful to have that relationship with her as well.  And I know it might sound cheesy or corny, but I truly believe Wagner Associates is a special place. We are a tiny company. We are a family. And part of what attracted me to this firm and this job, it immediately gave me, sort of, memories of what it was like in the computer science department at Allegheny where it was a small environment. Dr. Cupper really promoted that family atmosphere. And similarly, the CEO of our tiny company who is my boss, I feel like he promotes that same type of atmosphere, to the extent that one can in a business environment. 


Briana: That's wonderful to hear. It's—I'm tempted to use the word heartwarming—to hear that that can still happen in a workplace. 


Jennifer: Yep. Again, very lucky. I feel very lucky for it.


Briana: And so tell me what your work is. Sort of your day-to-day in your job.


Jennifer: So, that's an interesting question. Again, we are a tiny company. I think we've kind of bopped around between 20 and 35 people during the time I've been there. And so that means as a software developer at Wagner Associates, I wear all sorts of hats. Not just coding, but I'm involved in sort of the full software life cycle, from requirements to design to coding to testing to integrating to delivering. I have done it all over the last —I've lost count, but it's been over two decades. In addition to that, I've launched the mentoring program. So I've been involved in mentoring and sort of training younger employees. I also took over recruiting of software developers at Wagner Associates around 2011. My first recruit was another Allegheny grad, which was very exciting. And I've been doing that for a good 15 years now. I mean, we're not hiring now, but like when we've needed to hire over the last 15 years, I've been sort of on the forefront of that. So I've kind of gotten some leadership and organizational and management experience through that role at the company as well. Additionally, I do sometimes, not recently, but I might review or assist with proposals. So we wear a lot of hats being a small company.


Briana: Yeah, for sure. For sure. I wonder if you could describe, in lay terms, what—what kind of software you develop? What is it that you're developing?


Jennifer: So, I have primarily worked on a variety of contracts for the US Navy. Our work is very much defense centric, and I've sort of been involved with projects involved with anti-submarine warfare and mission planning.


Briana: Got it. Okay. So thinking about the story that you've told, from Allegheny, a short time in the workforce and then graduate school and right into the job that you have now... All, if I've understood correctly, in a similar vein… it feels like a pretty direct line, like a pretty straight path -- from the outside. Did it feel that way from the inside?


Jennifer: I would say certainly, definitely not at the beginning of my career at Allegheny, given I had no interest or experience with programming or the technology sector at all. So that felt like a really sharp turn early on in my journey. I guess once I made that decision to make my career in the computer science technology sector, I suppose it was a relatively straight line at that point. Other than, moving even further from my family to go to graduate school and then find this job, that was sort of unexpected. I always figured I would end up closer to home or staying in Pittsburgh. 


Briana: Right. And why did you make that decision? Why did you end up where you did? 


Jennifer: At William and Mary?


Briana: Yeah. 


Jennifer: So I actually looked at two very different places: University of Pittsburgh and William and Mary. You know, William and Mary—not that it's small like Allegheny, but for a graduate program, it was going to be smaller. So, as close to Allegheny-like as I could get. Pitt had the advantage of being close to home, but huge. So, that's what we did, and we didn't look back. And William and Mary turned out to be a great place for me. Again, it was a small department and—I think as close to an Allegheny-like atmosphere as I was going to get for graduate school.


Briana: In a graduate school, yeah. And it sounds as though that is... that's a type of environment where you really thrive.


Jennifer: Yes, I think so.


Briana: And I think it is valuable to—to recognize that kind of thing. All of us—if we're able to say, um, you know, "Look, I—I don't do well in this kind of situation. I do much better in this kind of situation," and kind of seek those out, while still being open to new things, new possibilities, trying to find a balance between enough of your comfort zone to be able to thrive while also…. 


Jennifer: …pushing yourself.


Briana: Yeah, pushing yourself and finding new directions and new opportunities. 


Jennifer: Yes, I think I do do better, or thrive, so to speak, in environments where I can sort of build relationships with people and build trust with people. Once we got into the COVID era, my husband and I both started working from home, and so I became sort of more isolated by just working from home. More of my work became more technical. And so I had to look for other opportunities to build new relationships and sort of push my social skills and my interpersonal skills, management skills a little bit harder. And so, that's why I was really excited when I ended up with the opportunity to work with the CS department to launch the Technical Advisory Board at Allegheny. I hadn't done much management or organizational stuff at my job for a while. And so I became the inaugural president of the Technical Advisory Board. Served in that role for two years. Had to do a lot of coordination and management in that role, get bylaws written, and interact with other alumni scattered all over the country to plan fundraisers and other events for the students. So again, still working in that sort of small Allegheny atmosphere, literally in that case, but looking for ways to sort of push myself in different directions.


Briana: Right, to do new things and continue to build new skills and—and new relationships with these fellow alums.


Jennifer: Yeah, yep, yep. Some of whom I knew because we were there at the same time, and there were other alums that I was meeting for the first time, but we all had that sort of love of the school in common, and it just—it worked out really well.


Briana: Yeah. And interest in supporting our current students. For the folks who might not be familiar, can you explain what the Computer Science department's Technical Advisory Board is?


Jennifer: Right. So, it is a group of alumni whose goals are to sort of further the mission of the department—both financially by being involved with fundraising, and also through student engagement activities. So for example, we've matched alumni up with students for mentoring and mock interviews. This year, I am really excited about what my contribution is going to be. Given I've been involved with recruiting and interviewing at my company for 15 years, and have done many, many interviews over the years, I have put together a presentation called "The Dos and Don'ts of Interviewing" that I'm planning to present to students of the department in either one or two sessions, depending on how much interest there is. And I'm going to actually give them case studies based on real candidates— what the candidates did right and wrong, and what made or broke or didn't break an interview. Letting people know like, okay, these are red flags, these are things you want to avoid during interviews, and these are things that really impressed us. 


Briana: Yeah. So as you think about the work that you do in your professional life, what would you say the most important contributions are, of that work?


Jennifer: So, I think the most important contribution of my work... As I mentioned, everything I've done has been defense related. My biggest client is the US Navy. And while I don't always support every political decision that's made in DC, I always support our fellow citizens who serve in the military. And I am proud of the fact that the work that we do, and that I do at Wagner Associates, helps them be safer and more effective in their respective roles. And even though it might sound a little bit corny, that feels especially meaningful to me simply because I'm the granddaughter of two World War II veterans. I have a brother-in-law in the National Guard. My mother-in-law was in the Army many, many years ago. And also given that I live here in southeastern Virginia in Hampton Roads, we have so many service members who live in this community, so many of my daughter's classmates have parents in the military. So I really like the idea of, you know, being able to support these wonderful people who are also my neighbors. And then in addition to that, the other way that I feel that my work has been meaningful: with my husband and I both having great jobs in the technology sector, we have both been in a position, then, to give financially to a variety of causes that are important to us. And so I realize it's sort of an indirect  consequence of our work, but it is still meaningful to me that we've been able to help so many charitable causes and organizations that we think do good work that's meaningful to us.


Briana: I think that's a really important thing to say when it comes to thinking about the contribution of your work. If that allows you to then do other things that are meaningful, then that is a contribution of your work, even if it is, as you say, indirect.


Jennifer: Yep.


Briana: And so you've talked some about your personal life, your life outside of work. How do you see those two things fitting together? So, what is the relationship in your mind between a meaningful life and the work that we do every day?


Jennifer: Okay.


Briana: It's a big philosophical question from a liberal arts college.


Jennifer: Yep. Yep. Yep. And I guess I'm going to go back to, you know, thinking how long I have been at Wagner Associates. For me, part of having meaning in my life is, you know, of course, there's the obvious: I want to be a great wife to my husband and a great mother to my nine-year-old. But with my work, I want to do something that I'm excited about, that challenges me every day. And I want to be with co-workers, many of whom have become like family to me, that I'm close with outside of work. You know, I'm learning stuff from my youngest colleagues and I learn stuff from my oldest colleagues. Like, the young people come in, and there's things that they learned in school or at a prior job that, you know, wasn't even taught in school when I was in school. So it's that—that constant opportunity to sort of learn and grow within the context of my job. And I've been able to do that fairly well at Wagner. To not stagnate. And my job has certainly helped me to not stagnate. I mean, we're now trying to figure out how does AI fit into all of this. That's certainly not something that we were doing 25 years ago at Allegheny...


Briana: Or even five years ago.


Jennifer: Or even five years ago. Exactly. Exactly.


Briana: Yeah. Yeah. And aren't we all trying to figure out where AI fits in? 


Jennifer: Oh, yeah.


Briana: So, one final question for you today.


Jennifer: All right.


Briana: What advice do you have for current or future Allegheny students who hope to build successful lives of meaning and purpose?


Jennifer: Well, even though we talked about how so much of my—my path seemed like a really straight logical line, it did not start out that way. And so, I would advise future or incoming students or current students: don't be afraid to change plans. Don't be so set in your way, or what you think the plan is that you miss an opportunity that might be right in front of you. Don't be afraid to try something new and different and then change plans based on what you got out of that experience. Just simply because the fact that I ended up shifting gears so dramatically early in my Allegheny career took me to the life that I have now that I'm so grateful for. That is what I would say: when you're 18, 19 years old, keep your mind open and don't be afraid to shift gears if an opportunity presents itself. Or even to look for a slightly different opportunity than what you thought you were going for. And then the other piece of advice that I would give is, once you’ve finished at Allegheny, once you start establishing yourself in your own life and in your own career, look for opportunities to pay it forward. Think of all of the people who helped you get to where you are, and then look for opportunities to raise people up who are coming in behind you.


Briana: Well, Jennifer Haddox-Schatz, it has been wonderful to talk with you today. Thank you so much for the conversation.


Jennifer: Thank you so much for inviting me. This has been a real pleasure and I really appreciate your invitation.


Briana: I'd also like to thank all the members of the Allegheny community who helped make Gators on Purpose possible, including members of our alumni engagement and marketing and communications teams. Our digital humanities librarian, Andrew Miller, provides technical support for our recordings. Our music was composed by Dominic Juliana, Allegheny class of 2026, under the mentorship of Professor Michael Dolan, and was performed by piano instructor Wendy Plyler. Editing and mixing are done by me, your host, Briana Lewis. From campus to career, every Gator has a story that's uniquely their own, stories of curiosity and unusual combinations of interests fueled by creativity and a supportive community. These stories remind us that Allegheny College doesn't just prepare you for a job. It prepares you for a life lived on purpose.